Cesc, Rooney and the Loyalty Myth

We have all become used to players “Kissing the Badge”, and assuring the fans of their undying love for their Club by uttering facile mantras, such as “Once a Blue, always a Blue”, and many other similar clichés.

We have recently heard, more and more frequently, particularly in the case of Cesc Fabregas, that a player possesses this or that “DNA” in their blood.
This “possessive identifier” does not only refer to players who have been born overseas, such as Cesc, but British players, such as Gerrard, Neville and Shearer, born in the vicinity of their clubs, who are inextricably linked to their geographical heritage.

On the other hand, fans become emotionally involved with their Clubs, out of choice, and once they become Gooners, Dippers or Spuds they will remain loyal supporters for the rest of their lives.
Whether a fan is born or lives within a stone’s throw of their club, or is born many thousands of miles away, makes no difference. Their love of their Club, their team and its football is what unites them all.

Gooners all over the world love to get together, either in the Pubs or on the internet, and talk, discuss or argue about their beloved Gunners; to discuss the latest rumours; to worry about who will be bought; who will be sold; and how successful the team will be in the coming season. And this is true for fans of all the other teams too.

The loyalty of the fans is absolute and unquestioned but what then about the “loyalty” of the players, with or without DNA.

Fans because of their identity with the Club extend this loyalty and love to the players.
In return, they expect the players to respond in kind and give their love and loyalty back to both their devoted fans and the Club itself. Sadly, this emotional link is very often misplaced. At root, players are professional sportsmen who in their relatively short careers want to make as much money and win as many trophies as possible.

When Arsenal develops young players through their youth system, a very important milestone is passed when they reach 17 years of age. The Club and the player now engage in a purely business transaction which can often be brutal. Love and loyalty play no part in these discussions.

Firstly the Club will decide in a hard-headed businesslike manner, whether, or not, a young player is good enough for a professional career with them. For those who are unsuccessful there are broken dreams and broken hearts! No love or loyalty there then.
For the successful ones a contract is awarded with plenty of dosh, dependent on the deemed ability of individual players. No love or loyalty is evident there either; just haggling over money and security!

Immediately, from that moment, the dye is cast and the fans’ love and loyalty is divorced from the business of the financial contractual relationship of the Club and Player.
When Arsenal, Manchester City or whoever buy a player, they are in fact buying the player’s contract and the hard-headed business negotiations kick in again. No mention of love or loyalty! No siree Bob.

No matter how much fans would wish it to be different, it is this contractual relationship which governs Club and Player until the end of that contract or the end of the player’s career.  Consider the statements we continually hear from players and what they really mean;

“Once a Blue always a Blue”? Sod that, if more money and trophies are there for the taking.

“I love Arsenal”? Well until I am offered more money elsewhere, by Citeh.

“I am proud to be an Arsenal player”? Well until my DNA kicks in and I can go to a Club likely to win trophies and pay me a salary beyond my wildest dreams. Don’t cry for me Barcelona, the truth is I never left you £££££.

“I can only say it is in the hands of the manager”? If I say I want to go, it may cost me a big payout.
This is not to be overly cynical. It is reality! In truth, the players are not the only ones to blame for this state of affairs. From the age of 17 onwards, the legal business entity which is the Club, under the FIFA and UEFA guidelines, negotiates and dictates the financial relationship of the player to the Club.

The fans have no say in any of this, other than to provide the emotional and financial support without which the Club/Players would not exist. Cough up, pay more and watch the game!

Players’ Loyalty? Players’ Love?

Pahh! Don’t be naive, it’s just a MYTH!

Written by Red Arse


202 Responses to Cesc, Rooney and the Loyalty Myth

  1. rico says:

    Morning All…

    Nice one Red Arse, and on a day when suggestion is that Cesc may have to put in a transfer request to get his move…

    Well, if he does, I say bollox to his wishes, we put him up on the market and take the highest offer. There are clubs out there who would offer near on twice as much as Barca have….

  2. Erick says:

    RA spot on what can I say thats the modern game its about dosh and trophies kissing the badge means nothing even when you take risks and believe in them they still end up screwing you yes am bitter and may be not rational but DNA my foot take him and fill your bench

  3. Erick says:

    Morning Rico Nice job with the Fb and twitter check out my messages 🙂

  4. rico says:

    Morning Erick, i will go check you out 🙂

  5. Erick says:

    If Cesc stays I will support him so mucg that the DNA will be dirty water 🙂

  6. Eddee says:

    A lot of fans fail to understand that The Club itself is a busine$$ entity governed by the rules of profit, and these rules are evident in the behaviour of all professional players – to us the fans; football is life, to the dictators; it just a game with financial benefits.
    Nice one mates!

  7. rico says:

    Erick – all done on facebook 🙂

  8. adam says:

    An accurate if somewhat depressing view of the world of the pro footballer. As ever, money is at the root of it all but perhaps money won’t always buy that extra edge of commitment. We will see this year with Man City who seem intent on assembling a stronger on-paper squad than has ever been seen before. That will bring its own problems with players egos and in-house jealousies. They say consistency is good for football clubs but the kind of consistencies Arsenal are in danger of slipping into sail dangerously close to complacency and the fans won’t stand it. If Wenger doesn’t buy the players we have needed for the past 4 years and the results reflect that, the pressure on him will be enormous.

  9. rico says:

    Hi Ed, thats what the players forget, its us fans who end up suffering…

  10. rico says:

    hi adam, not sure how they will fair when it comes to the new ruling though, especially if they get injuries to the ‘homegrown’ could be interesting

  11. adam says:

    rico. I am not sure exactly when the new ruling comes into force and if the rules will apply to players and trading balances after they become “law”. If someone could clarify this I would be grateful.

  12. Gooner from Sydney says:

    Great article

  13. Erick says:

    Rico nice 🙂 one more thing you need to update the status by providing a link and heading of today post if am making sense

  14. Erick says:

    Adam worry not Rico and RA have something about the new rules keep it here am more confused than you Adam

  15. adam says:

    In fact, thinking about it, if someone could post the details of both the new financial and homegrown rules I would welcome it. Many thanks.

  16. Erick says:

    Adam a post will be up this week I think 🙂

  17. adam says:

    Erick. Yes, a kind of idiot’s guide would be good. And I, as an idiot, would be happy to see it.

  18. Suhail.TV says:

    Spot on RA.. Loyalty might be a myth..

  19. rico says:

    adam, i’m an idiot too, haven’t a clue what the new rules really mean, but i am hoping RA is on the case 🙂

  20. rico says:

    Erick, i think the link to todays post is up there, another thing to remember in the morning when i’m half asleep 😉

  21. adam says:

    rico. We wait in anticipation.

  22. Erick says:

    Adam one who seeks knowledge is no idiot the details may affect post Adam and that would mean another day without talking Arsenal Howdy STV RA the scholar did it again

  23. rico says:

    Morning STV, money is the motivator these days for most, the likes of Dennis Bergkamp are few and far between…

  24. Erick says:

    Rico am here to remind you don’t worry 🙂

  25. rico says:

    i’d give it a go adam, but i know i’d get it wrong 😉

    from what i can make out though, the rules would leave us looking very strong where as a few other sides would struggle if they were to suffer injuries. They would have suffient players but could end up playing Lampard in goal for example 😉

    wenger obviously saw this coming many years ago and got us the right quota of players, now though he has no excuse not to buy a few extras 🙂

  26. Eddee says:

    @Adam – Wenger won’t buy a player because we want him. He only gambles on players we need. We the fans must strike a perfect balance between wanting something that is important, but not urgent and needing a particular thing that is urgent but not important.
    In a nutshell, Wenger doesn’t buy the players, he recommends them to the B.O.D, and when the directors get a formal request with regards to tightening a weakened position, they deliberate on the issue and, if they deem the purchase fit Wenger is given some cash to spend (wisely), so the idea of Wenger falling out of favour with the powers that be, is ill-advised because we can hate him for the bad decisions he’s taken before, but the club will us afford him an opportunity to please us and that’s the bottomline.

  27. Suhail.TV says:

    We are lucky Rico., we had one.. great,

    Maldini Zanetti, there are surely only a few.. but they will be legends in the eyes of world..
    What if henry ends up his career at arsenal???

  28. rico says:

    Thanks Erick, good job i think 🙂

  29. Erick says:

    Rico the link can’t be seen you have to check it out 🙂 I read we will buy 3 player

  30. rico says:

    Its on now Erick, please would you check its ok 🙂

  31. Erick says:

    Ok Rico let me check it out and why am i going into moderation

  32. Erick says:

    Rico nice it up thats a good start

  33. rico says:

    I don’t understand why you keep getting sent there 😦

  34. Red Arse says:

    Hi Guys, Glad you liked the article. 🙂

    Rico I could do a brief note to you to include in your post for tomorrow, if you like.

    I wrote a comment about it a couple of days ago, but it would probably be too long for an extended comment.

    Would you like me to send you something?

  35. rico says:

    Hi RA, yes please, that would be good, doesnt matter how long/short it is, i saw your comment the other day and its clear you understand the new rules and how they effect us, where as, i dont 😉

    hope you didn’t mind the added photo 🙂

  36. Erick says:

    Morning RA nice post wouldn’t argue with that even STV reckons you are a scholar 🙂

  37. Red Arse says:


    In my previous post I was referring to the new squad rules. (Which come into effect this coming season Adam).

    Erick, the noises from Italy (?) are that the big italain clubs are after individual Ajax players, but that Arsenal want to make a bid for Steklenber, Van der Wiel and Luis Suarez for £42m.

    Wonderful if true, but unlikely! 😦

  38. rico says:

    Erick, could you come out of FB please just for a while to see if that is what sending you intio moderation..

  39. Red Arse says:

    Rico, my love I never mind what you do. It always improves my bits of nonsense. 🙂

    The picture of Cesc makes the point beautifully!

  40. rico says:

    I also saw your note yesterday re Pedro believing we are in for a player or two, sounds very promising, i thought VDW was off somewhere else??

  41. Red Arse says:

    Hi Erick,

    You are always appreciative, thank you.

    My friend Suhail is always nice to me too. 🙂

    Got to go out for a short while, need to post off some tax analysis schedules.

  42. Red Arse says:


    I was v. amused by Pedro. As you know he is famous for his “sources”, which Geof maintains is “guessing”.

    Anyway we were trying to get him to name names or say which positions, but he remained coy except to say it was a GK and a DM.

    Well I never! 🙂 Good fun.

    Got to run.

  43. Erick says:

    Tax analysis schedule very technical 🙂 that would be great but the CH position needs to be sorted out

  44. rico says:

    Erick, i think your IP adress is different, hence the moderation… 😦

  45. rico says:

    Got to pop off for a hour or so, back later all…

    Erick, i’m sorry if you get left stranded in moderation, its only me checking the dashboard 😦 😦

  46. Erick says:

    No problem Rico Cheers

  47. Suhail.TV says:

    see u later..

  48. K-TR7 says:

    Morning all.RVP is our new no.10 while vela is 11.its official.

  49. Erick says:

    K-tr7 vipi buda Vela seems to be heading for a great season

  50. K-TR7 says:

    Niko poa erick.nina matumaini ya hali ya juu kumhusu vela.palipo na moshi pana moto;vela aonyesha ustadi wa hali ya juu mara kwa mara na namtakia mema kwani talanta yake ipo…

  51. Erick says:

    Siwezi pinga hapo kweli kabisa na Wilshire natumai atapata nafasi ya kucheza mara kwa mara Eduardo hayuko Austrilia hiyo ni kumaanisha ametuaga ?

  52. Erick says:

    Its official Dudu is gone 😦 😦 😦 😦 I Wish Dudu all the best we still owe you mate

  53. K-TR7 says:

    Erick its sad eddy’s career with us had to end prematurely.

  54. W.A.T.H says:

    Mornin Erick & KT, Erick it’s not official until it’s on dotcom and it’s not on there yet….!

    Good article RA…..

  55. Erick says:

    Wath all indication are pointing to that direction sad mate the real hit man is gone

  56. W.A.T.H says:

    But it’s still not official 😉

    I think it’s a good move for both parties 2b honest…! Agree he was the fox in the box BUT not since the injury so he needs to get away and start afresh…!

  57. rico says:

    Eduardo has gone 😦 😦


    afternoon all…

  58. rico says:

    Vuvuzelas are banned at the Emirates 🙂

  59. W.A.T.H says:

    Rico, ur getting like Erick… it’s NOT on dotcom so as much as it look real its still not confirmed or official that he has left yet….. Oh and hello 😉

  60. rico says:

    Bollox, Almunia has travelled, maybe to sign for an Austrian club 😉

    No Simpson, but Frimpong is in, thats good imho

    Arsenal squad in Austria:

    Manuel Almunia
    Abou Diaby
    Bacary Sagna
    Thomas Vermaelen
    Tomas Rosicky
    Samir Nasri
    Laurent Koscielny
    Carlos Vela
    Theo Walcott
    Alex Song
    Jack Wilshere
    Johan Djourou
    Lukasz Fabianski
    Gael Clichy
    Andrey Arshavin
    Vito Mannone
    Emmanuel Eboue
    Kieran Gibbs
    Marouane Chamakh
    Armand Traore
    Wojciech Szczesny
    Craig Eastmond
    Emmanuel Frimpong
    Conor Henderson
    Henri Lansbury
    Jay Emmanuel-Thomas
    Havard Nordtveit

  61. rico says:

    Hi WATH, Bilic has confirmed it, thats good enough for me 😉 afc.com wont tell us til friday 😉

  62. rico says:

    That means we either give Simpson the no9 shirt or we are off into the market 🙂

  63. oliver says:

    morning all. interesting article – i agree with much, but not all. i think there are different levels of loyalty: for supporters, to support no matter what. for players, to give all while they are wearing the shirt. it is a passion for us supporters, but not a business – it is a business for the players and staff. players move all the time – sometimes at their own behest, other times because clubs want to go in a different direction. players come, players go. i completely agree with all of this. i disagree – fans may not have a say, but we do have a choice. we are do not like how the club is being run, or are disgusted with cesc’s “lack of candor”, we always have the choice to withdraw support. as an arsenal supporter, i never carry a sense of entitlement: there are plenty of things about the club and arsene that frustrate me, but i do not profess to know better than them. i continue to support regardless. i do not carry a sense of entitlement – cesc does not “owe” me a statement about how he feels deep down in his heart. all he owes all of us is his absolute best for the team and club, and i have no reason to think he will fail to do so. as ra explained in his post, loyalty means different things for the supporter and the player. if cesc proves me wrong and mails it in, then shame on me. but until then…

  64. Red Arse says:

    Hi Wath, Oliver, KT,

    I have hopped around the lake to excercise the knee, and I swear the bloody ducks are laughing at me. 😦

    Oliver, there are of course nuances to this loyalty caper but in an article designed to be pithy and stimulate debate, it would become too unwieldly, and bore you guys even more than it has done! 🙂

  65. Red Arse says:


    Did you get my email re numbers etc?

  66. oliver says:

    hahahaha, of course. well, hopefully i added my part to the debate. the undercurrent remains cesc’s status and my position is well-established as contrary to the majority. i will continue to fight my lonely corner as best i can.

  67. Red Arse says:


    The Austrian squad is much as expected. There is no Barazite, Afobe or Bartley included. Is Bartley still injured?

    I would have particularly liked to have seen Afobe. That rubbish Eastmond has a charmed life. 😦

  68. rico says:

    I have replied RA, 🙂

    I hoped Simpson would travel

  69. rico says:

    I think Frimpong could very well push ahead of Eastmond RA..

  70. oliver says:

    gm rico.

  71. Red Arse says:

    Hi Rico,

    Just read your email. 😳

    I have high hopes for Frimmy. He was the first one I mentioned on nthe day I found your site! 🙂

  72. rico says:

    Good moring to you oliver, sorry i missed you come in 😦 😦

  73. Red Arse says:


    I’m curious, are your teeth stuck together?

    gmm Rico. ?? 🙂

  74. Red Arse says:

    I have to say Rico that poor old Simpson is a goner, not a Gooner.

    I don’t know why. He always seemed O.K. to me. 😦

  75. Red Arse says:


    Ohayo dono yo ni anata wa nanidesu ka?

    Where did you learn your Japanese? V. impressive.

  76. rico says:

    Ah, but i mentioned him here before you 😉

  77. Red Arse says:

    Rico, that’s a bit sneaky. If it was before I first blogged (?) on your site, does that count?

    I’m sure I said it pre Avenell, and my dad is bigger than your dad. 🙂

  78. rico says:

    ah, but its not my site 😉

  79. Red Arse says:

    Can’t quite understand why Wenger has taken 4 GK’s to Austria, Rico.

    That smacks of indecision. And what if we buy a GK? That would be an odd number and they wouldn’t all have partners to dance with! 🙂

  80. rico says:

    I can RA, Almunia and Flappy are going to sign for an Austrian club whilst they are there 🙂

  81. Red Arse says:


    I’m shocked! Do you mean I have been sucking up to you and it’s not even your site? Have you no shame woman!! 😉

  82. Red Arse says:

    They should have saved the air fares. No one will want them except maybe the wanton goatherd.

    Julia Andrews knew a thing or two. 😉

  83. oliver says:

    ra, i spent five years in japan. yokohama and fukuoka areas. i am by no means fluent, but…

    good morning to you rico and nw.

  84. oliver says:

    now that many of us are here, something i am pondering this morning…

  85. rico says:

    go ahead oliver, tell all 🙂

  86. Red Arse says:


    Wow! I think I told you I went there on business a few times but never learned a word.

    The women were all too busy bowing to me and the men spoke excellent English.

    I did manage the occasional Domo Arrigato, but even then they looked at me pityingly. (something to do with the accent, it seems I kept asking for a giant rabbit every time I thanked someone) tsk tsk 🙂

  87. Red Arse says:

    Tell all indeed Oliver, but with paras. 🙂

  88. rico says:

    RA, its a third mine 😉

  89. Red Arse says:

    Oh well that’s O.K. then Rico, I was only being a third smarmy. Has JJ got a surprise coming? 😀

  90. oliver says:

    substitutions. i think arsene can get more out of our players in the squad by using the substitutions more effectively. arsene will no doubt take exception to my implication he does not use them effectively, but i would argue that his substitutions very rarely change a game (there are some instances where they do, i remember one last season where he changed the game completely (for the better) through substitutions, but i cannot remember the match/circumstances. i do not think it is walcott’s introduction in the first leg v barca that i am thinking of, although that is a good example).

    arsene generally waits until the hour mark to make substitutions. i would like to see him be more aggressive in this area – if something is not working, why not use a substitution as early as the 30 minute mark or halftime? we have three – save the others for late in the second half. but if we see a particular player that doesn’t have it, make a move earlier to try and switch things up. if we are going to keep players like wilshere, eastmond, and vela in the squad, then bringing them into matches earlier (obviously situation-dependent) will give them more experience and playing time. this will have its pitfalls as well – law of averages states that there will be instances where the sub does not have the desired impact, and we wind up losing/drawing a match we were winning. overall, i think using getting some of these players on earlier in matches will help them and us. and perhaps prevent a situation where the likes of eduardo and vela basically rotted on the bench for most of last season.

    like anything it has it’s risks. i think what i am saying is look at using subs as part of broader picture. obviously to change the course of a match or replace an injured player, but also to get fringe players more match time and experience.

  91. Red Arse says:


    When you said there are many of us here. You meant Rico, yourself and me. And I have got to go.

    Rico has left me a third in tears! sob ( I usually go sob, sob, sob, of course) 😛

  92. oliver says:

    mw ra. see what you think of my idea when you return.

  93. Red Arse says:


    Before I go.

    I absolutely agree with you! Wenger has often really annoyed me with the delay in bringing on subs. Sometimes as late as the last 10 mins before using the first sub.

    I do not pretend to be in Arsene’s league, so to speak, but I just cannot fathom his logic sometimes.

    I’ll be back soon Rico/Olly.

  94. rico says:

    oliver, you are spot on, i don’t know if you were on here during the season, but on matchday/day after the most common complaint was how poor wenger used his subs…

  95. oliver says:

    seems like a no-brainer for us watching, but arsene clearly sees things differently. if he can just be more flexible with this, we would not need to loan the likes of wilshere out every season.

  96. rico says:

    true oliver, subs should make an impact, not make up the numbers – i get dissapointed when we need a goal and see Eboue come on for say Nik, or Denilson for Diaby, just eg’s but they don’t make sense at all and usually have little to no impact..

    i know theo gets a bashing by many, but if he comes off the bench the oppo is straight on the back foot in fear of his pace…

  97. agirlaguner says:

    RA, excellent post.:) 😉

    I suppose I am entirely too invested in our club that statements such as YKW’s (or perhaps the lack thereof, in his case) can only feel like a betrayal. Well, the profitability to his career of a move to Barcelona, to me, at least, is more ostensible than real. He’s not even guaranteed a start there… But I am grown tired of everything him and all his, I shan’t say more.

    Hola, rico, oliver. How do you?

  98. oliver says:

    as no less a player than lionel messi would attest! we can only hope that arsene will better use his full squad this season. even with the horrible injuries last season, there were several squad members who could have contributed, but did not get the opportunities. even without injuries, there will be situations where we can use subs to get squad members some much-needed playing time. we’ll see how this goes.

  99. rico says:

    Hola agag, the way ykw was at the villa game and how he is now is crazy, such a short period of time has passed and emotions have changed for him, fickle he is…

  100. oliver says:

    hi agag, very well, thank you.

  101. agirlaguner says:

    Great observation, oliver. Dudu was the perfect example? What was Wenger expecting him to do in the ten/fifteen minutes he was given? (And his move to Shakhtar Donetsk doesn’t bear thinking… 😦 😦 😦 )

  102. agirlaguner says:

    rico, what is worse, only months ago he was the one telling Barcelona to respect Arsenal… He’s so variable… he might as well be a girl. Lol.

    Five years in Japan, oliver. That is sooo cool. I think we’re visiting in the fall… Visas to sort out though, and we are such last minute people so that’s a long from now. 🙂

  103. oliver says:

    dudu is a confidence player – his lack of confidence last season was clear for all to see. but arsene never gave him that much opportunity to build confidence with the occasional late sub appearance. arsene had to prioritize results first, i get that. but i still think he missed some opportunities to give dudu and vela more match minutes. it may not have made any difference to how our season went. but it may also have made a world of difference – we will never know. i just hope that arsene makes more use of his squad this season.

    i think the perception that arsenal keep a small squad is by and large a myth. the squad is not small – it lacks experience in many positions, and too many of the players do not get enough experience.

  104. K-TR7 says:

    Id like to veer off course abit.seeing cole sign for pool got me thinking;ten years or so ago cole looked set to revolutionize english footy since he looked more of a brazilian/spaniard than english.here in England he was forced to play out wide in a 4-4-2 due to tactical inflexibility of most british teams and managers.if he had gone abroad i’m sure he would’ve turned out to be quite an amazing player.since he isn’t 6″2 or a speedster he was wasted out wide.the three lions lack that unpredictability player that cole could’ve become and its quite sad the attitude of most brit managers is that of brawl over brain.i’m glad wilshere under AW will play quite central.it also speaks volumes of the English attitude of thinking that the best players only play in the ‘best league’ leading to pundits like shearer saying none of the Germans would make the English team.I think England would benefit from players moving abroad helping them experience different cultures hence a variation of tactics which would be quite useful but most kids would rather play xbox/ps3 fifa manager where they only get deluded into thinking that AW can just buy whoever he wants with unlimited cash.Players like song should be an inspiration to young players since you can see how he struggled to get where he is now,that drive is severly lacking.you may counter my argument by saying we have the best league but in one way or another the answer is somewhere in between…

  105. oliver says:

    enjoy. where in japan do you plan to visit? tokyo is fascinating, but there is so much more to the country. my favorite place is sapporo, up north on hokkaido – we visited during a september, the end of summer, but before the cold winter set in. streets seemed much wider than tokyo, air was much cleaner.

  106. Red Arse says:

    Hola little keeper,

    The v. best time to visit is in the Spring. Cherry blossom time in Kyoto is absolutely magic. 🙂

    The only piece of advice I would give, to one who is so wise, is always take your hotels name card with you when going out sightseeing or shopping.

    Taxi drivers never understand the romanised pronunciation of hotel names. Show them the hotel name card, Japanese characters to the fore, and hey presto, you will be whisked back to your hotel without problem.

    My fee for such advice is £100 sterling! 🙂 That is as nothing to a wealthy socialite beauty such as you! 😉

  107. rico says:

    i’m sad about dudu 😦

  108. Red Arse says:


    We are now approaching the final few weeks of the transfer window and the usual cruel kindling of hope followed by crushing disappointment is gathering pace.

    Liverpuddle are apparently keeping Loic Remy dangling hoping to get a lower transfer fee agreed. He is lightening quick,is a big Arsenal fan,(allegedly) and I wish we could get him. But it won’t happen I suppose.:-(

  109. agirlagunner says:

    Kansai region. We’ve actually booked our flights, chosen a hotel, blah blah, now to be bothered with visas. 😉 Pictures of Kyoto in autumn look lovely. It will only be for a week though. 🙂 None of us can be away too long. 😦 😦 Work gets in the way of life, as always. Haha.

  110. Red Arse says:


    Don’t be sad about Eduardo. His injury put him in the doodoo, but Wath is right, until the deal is done, it is not done.

    I’m still not convinced he will go. I live in hope. 🙂

  111. Red Arse says:

    Agag, work is life. No work, no life. True? 🙂

  112. agirlagunner says:

    I think I’m heartbroken about Dudu, rico. (Someone help me with the crying emoticon, please) I rate him highly. For some reason, all my favorites in our team are the oh so injury-prone ones.

  113. Red Arse says:

    Anyway Agag, it would be much cheaper to visit the UK, see a gunner’s game and of course visit Avenell. Rico could show you some of her lawn mowing techniques. V. English. 🙂

  114. oliver says:

    ok, so you will be around osaka and kobe. lots to see and lots of history around there. enjoy!

    i also with things worked out with dudu. and i feel a little “dirty” about how he is leaving. i know it is a business, and i know that the club probably things this is the best solution for both parties, but i will always wonder what might have been – not only st andrews, but also his villification regarding events during the second leg tie versus a useless celtic side.

  115. oliver says:

    i think dudu as just about gone. judging from last season and this pre-season, it would appear that arsene does not see much opportunity in the first team. we’ll see.

    i wouldn’t hold my breath for remy, honda or any of the others we are being linked with – we have more urgent needs in other areas.

  116. Red Arse says:

    I’ve noticed that Rico and you Agag both show great concern for the wounded soldiers, RVP and Dudu. Must be maternal instincts kicking in!

    Have I mentioned my bust knee, lately? 🙂

  117. agirlagunner says:

    RA, trop cher! I can’t afford your rates. 🙂

    I was in Seoul last spring, the cherry blossoms were beautiful and the night view from Mt. Namsan was amazing. 🙂

  118. Red Arse says:

    Sadly you are probably correct, Oliver.

    For myself, perhaps irrationally from your more cautious viewpoint, I would like to set the team up to attack, attack, attack!

    To hell with boring defending. Glory, glory, taking it to the opposition, rather than hiding in the bunker defending.

    Just as well I am not the manager! 🙂

  119. oliver says:

    ra, arsene might agree with your philosophy!

    agag, i was in the republic of korea (busan), last march – it was ok, but i always enjoyed seoul more.

  120. Red Arse says:

    I haven’t been to Seoul for a long time. On the occasions I went there for business I was wined and dined by the supplier’s managers.

    I cannot recall the name of the hotel with the revolving restaurant at the top at the top. The first time I visited I was quite amazed that at the stroke of midnight, someone switched out the lights throughout the city and a curfew came into effect. This happened every night. Wierd. Perhaps it still does.

    By the way, if you do get the opportunity to visit Kyoto, even in the Autumn/Fall, it would be wonderful. 🙂

  121. Red Arse says:


    Have you done a runner again? 🙂

  122. oliver says:

    the seoul tower has a revolving restaurant at the top, that is what i remember.

  123. agirlagunner says:

    RA, I’m sort of like that about our club. Which is why I have not given up on landing Torres. We’ll score ten goals, and let in eight every game.

    RvP’s thighs are of paramount concern to rico. Sshhh, don’t tell her I told you.

    And UK is the farthest thing from inexpensive. USD500/day for a hotel is NOT cheap.

    I like Seoul’s street food, oliver. Yum. Cab fares were killer. 😦

  124. Red Arse says:

    Agag, Did they still have a midnight curfew, last Spring?

    I did not put my thoughts down coherently earlier. What I meant was I was wined and dined so much, I had little time to myself to explore. Hard work…. hard entertaining. Quite Japanese in a way, Oliver, though they seem to thoroughly dislike each other, though discretely.

  125. oliver says:

    agag, if torres is fit – and that is a big if – we’ll see him on the 15th. unfortunately, that will be in liverpool kit. not that we would ever have a realistic chance of landing him…

    what’s with this spain forward anyways? i have been to luneta park and have read mi ultimo adios at the monument. that is part of spain’s legacy, too…

  126. Red Arse says:

    Agag, 500 US$ per day is not cheap. London is v. expensive.

    If you just want to visit and explore the country, there are much better deals to be had in the English equivalent of American motels. Clean rooms can be had, at the moment for the equivalent of 35 US$ throughout the UK.

    Google Premier Lodge e.g. And of course Rico or Wath would put you up! 😛

    Enough of my travel industry spiel. 🙂

  127. oliver says:

    ra, if you are referring to koreans and japanese disliking each other (i am not sure you are), there is a long history there. thanks to their “greater east asia co-prosperity sphere”, japan is understandably viewed with suspicion by their neighbors. they could – and should – do more to make amends for their wartime past. but they have to sort it out internally before they reach out to neighbors – many nationalist and unrepentant elements in japan that do not think they should apologize for anything. they will never have normalized relations with their neighbors so long as elements of their society cling on to that view.

    sorry for the history rant/political commentary – this is an arsenal blog, is it not?

  128. Red Arse says:


    I have never been to the Philippines unfortunately. Luneta Park, in Manila is the country’s national park isn’t it?

    Forgive my ignorance but what is the connection between my final goodbye and Torres/Jose Rizal?

  129. Red Arse says:


    I was referring to that. Pre-world war 2 is so long ago, I was amazed at the depth of feeling still there.

    Arsenal news/chat is v. slow today. Like the lull before the storm!

  130. rico says:

    no, i’m still here, but just real busy 😦 😦

    its not about the wounded ones, he was a great poacher striker, now he’s all but gone, who have we got??

    Simpson, who i like but looks as if he’s going to be let go, stupid in my view, really stupid..

  131. K-TR7 says:

    Rico i wrote a comment at 3:40 but it keeps saying i await moderation.

  132. agirlagunner says:

    No curfew when I was there, RA. Plenty of people about even at 2 am. I will remember your and Oliver’s travel tips.

    oliver, the Philippines was a Spanish colony from 1521 to 1898. 🙂 That’s why our language is peppered with Spanish words; we tell time/quote currency/refer to driving gears in Spanish. Ask your wife.

    35USD for a hotel room sounds like moldy grouting, RA. Lol. In any case, I can’t find anyone who wants to go with me to watch Arsenal. 😦 Bummer.

  133. Red Arse says:

    Maybe they will bring in my man Remy to replace him, Rico.

    Not holding out too much hope though.

    It’s partly why I was hoping Arsene would take Afobe with him to Austria. Young? Yes, but it’s only a flipping training camp and would help him feel at home with the big boys and prepare him for the Carling Cup.

  134. agirlagunner says:

    Boo, KT. 🙂 I kept going into mod yesterday too and realized I misspelled my name. I really am a lousy typist.

  135. Red Arse says:

    Hi KT,

    Glad you are out! 🙂

  136. Red Arse says:


    why do you have to spell your name?

    Doesn’t your name sit automatically on the comments screen?

  137. oliver says:

    ra, nothing specific. i doubt fernando torres gave the order for dr. rizal’s execution, but i mentioned that as a means of putting agag’s favoring a spainard (torres) in the context of spain’s earlier activities in the philippines. luneta park is indeed a historic site – dr. rizal’s actual execution took place there, right at the end of 1886, i think. we visited the park during a stopover in manila several years ago – i think we were traveling from new orleans to baguio at that time.

  138. Red Arse says:

    Thanks Oliver. I understand now.

  139. agirlagunner says:

    I used google chrome for the first time yesterday; my firefox wouldn’t open is why, RA.

    oliver, I liked our Spanish captain too, alas, his DNA proved to be his undoing…

    Slooow news day. I want us to buy Affelay. 🙂 And van der Wiel. And van der Vaart.

  140. rico says:

    Sorry KTR7, i don’t know why you went into moderation 😦

    Had the same thing with Erick….

  141. rico says:

    Guys and Girls…..

    If you open a wordpress account, it should stop moderation problems, then all your details will safely pop up ready to blog each day….

    Oh, you can also download a picture 🙂

  142. oliver says:

    agag, not his dna as much as what others are saying is his dna. for me, there is still a difference. anyways, dna is overrated!

  143. Red Arse says:


    Stop it.

    Van the Fart is a great slow lump with a huge derriere and I am going to rename him Van the Fat from now on! 🙂

  144. Suhail.TV says:

    Hello all.., Some serious therapy is needed to take Almunia out of arsenal. 🙄

  145. Red Arse says:


    I must, in my admitted technological ignorance, have done that, because my details always pop up ready to go every morning.

    Except when I have had to re-boot after my Laptop freezes. 😦

  146. Red Arse says:

    Hi Suhail, our medical genius.

    What sort of therapy have you in mind? remove his head perhaps? That should do it. 🙂

  147. agirlagunner says:

    I should do that rico, so I can put up a picture of my cat. 🙂

    Fair point, oliver. But he’s dead to me the minute he himself mentions his DNA. 😉

  148. Red Arse says:


    ALERT: YKW announced this day that his DNA shows he originates from North London.

  149. oliver says:

    if i post a picture, it will be squidward q. tentacles.

    cesc won’t mention his dna – when he eventually returns to barcelona, there will be much less fanfare than right now, and it will be on terms that all three parties (cesc, arsenal and barca) can live with.

  150. Suhail.TV says:

    Gene neibhour ananysis for fabregas 😦

  151. rico says:

    agag, do that please, but dont let your cat catch my guinea pig 😉

    oliver, you can put what you want as your picture

  152. Red Arse says:

    It won’t happen this year Oliver.

    Both Barca and Arsenal ahve painted themselves into a corner.

    Barca won’t pay the £50m that Arsene wants, too much loss of face, and Arsene won’t take less becuase Barca have been appallingly uncivil! QED

  153. Red Arse says:


    I get the uncanny feeling that I met you or your doppelganger at a Treasury Management seminar in Porto, Portugal a few years back.

    Have you ever been there?

  154. K-TR7 says:

    Naughty RA…Your main reason for wanting vdv is to have sylvie vdv at the grove to drool over when you see diaby/denilson/almunia combination lining up…now that rico has set me free my 3:40 was on how j.cole a rarity in English talent got wasted by rigid tactics.its sad…

  155. agirlagunner says:

    oliver, Patrick Star is infinitely cuter. 🙂

    Boo, STV. 🙂

  156. Red Arse says:


    It’s Agag who wants VDF, but I have to admit Mrs VDV would go down a treat.

  157. Red Arse says:

    Oops, sorry. Just realised, for all you guys who are familiar with ideogrammatic English, I did not quite mean my VDV post to sound the way it might. 😦

  158. Suhail.TV says:

    RA.. You look in a great form today 🙂

  159. Red Arse says:


    I think you have a point about Cole, especially under Moanhiho at Chelski.

    However, he was also v. injury prone for a large part of the last 2 or 3 years.

  160. Red Arse says:

    You are always v. kind Suhail. 🙂

    That won’t stop me teasing you if I get half a chance though! 😉

  161. Red Arse says:


    Do you think I got away with my faux pas regarding Mrs VDV? Phew!

  162. oliver says:

    ra, i have never been to oporto, so that was not me. also, what i do is not related to treasury or finance.

    patrick may be cuter, but he should put a shirt on!

  163. K-TR7 says:

    Injuries too have contributed RA but my post was just highlighting my opinion on one of the reasons why English footy is suffering…Sylvie is quite a babe!that i concur sir…

  164. agirlagunner says:

    Sylvie is the only WAG I like. 🙂

    rico, is that really your guinea pig?

    (AGAG can’t handle Eduardo talk and would rather conversation remained desultory…)

  165. rico says:

    cough cough, i want VDV too 🙂

  166. rico says:

    agag, its a spitting image of one we had, she passed on a couple of years ago…

    Her name…. was rico 😥

  167. Red Arse says:

    I don’t know if you guys, other than Rico, are familiar with the notion of a Pub Quiz?

    It’s where teams compete, in a pub, to win a rubbish prize for winning a general knowledge or sports related Quiz.

    Well I’ve got to go and have a shower and tart myself up so that I will look really cool when my team get beaten again! 🙂 🙂

    So good nite guys and lasses, see you tomorrow. No Excuses!! 😉

  168. Suhail.TV says:

    Leave Silvie!!!

  169. agirlagunner says:

    That’s sad, rico. You know my favorite dog (Zizou), the one with cancer, is in a bad way. He’s gone blind. Vet says he should be put too sleep but we can’t bear it. 😦

  170. agirlagunner says:

    We have that here too, RA. Held regularly at a pub for Manc supporters… Ay! Have fun. 🙂

  171. JonJon says:

    evening all..

    i have a post or tomorrow rico if you want it..i wrote it last night but havent been able to get on line until now..

    has dudu def gone then??

  172. rico says:

    agag 😦 its always a tough call when the pets you love have to leave this world, we have had the same from the vet with ours in the past, as long as he’s not suffering then i would be just the same, its so sad though…… i don’t envy you at this time…

    We also lost her sister, Lola quite early in her life, now you must know i’m a huge barry manilow fan 😉

  173. agirlagunner says:

    Hi, jj. I’m still in denial over Eduardo. 😦

  174. rico says:

    Love it 🙂 🙂

  175. rico says:

    hi jj, hows things???

    is yours one that can go up anytime?? just RA has done one with a bit added about todays stuff…

  176. agirlagunner says:

    I know! But vets are so matter of fact about it, I haaaate that. 😦 Do you have a Mandy, too? Barry Manilow is great for videoke nights. 🙂 Haha. And Air Supply. Lol.

  177. JonJon says:

    yeah it can go up next day if you want..

    sad about dudu AGAG if its true but he needs to move..i would have give him one more year if im honest but if he isnt in the first team plans then he has to get it elsewhere..

    he suffered an horrific injury and is lucky to be walking again nevermind playing..he deserves to play so good luck to him..

  178. rico says:

    spot on there agag, they forget how we feel, i always think we know our pets better, there are so many signs that we see and the vet doesn’t… follow your own instinct …

  179. rico says:

    jj, i am away from thursday afternoon for a few days, so if you want to keep it??

    Eduardo is doing the right thing, for himself, what has this league done for him since his injury? NOWT…

    I’ll miss him, but its his choice and he needs to play footie, at least he’s still under contract and we get some money for him 😉

  180. JonJon says:

    thursdays good rico.. 😉

    does anyone know why cole went to dippers?? did he reject us or did we not even bother

  181. rico says:

    Peeeenaar of everton is up for grabs….

  182. agirlagunner says:

    I do suppose, JJ, he can’t forever be warming the bench for us, when he’s got such quality. 😦

    rico, I agree. That’s why we said “No, how dare you even suggest it!” (verbatim). Poor vet.

  183. rico says:

    oh, and remy could be heading our way, we have supposedly contacted his club….

  184. JonJon says:

    pienaars good but inter want him..

    arsenal have made a last gasp attempt to snatch remy rom under the noses of spurs..

    west ham , spurs and liverpool are in for him but liverpool have not offered enough..wenger has opened negotiations according to ssn

  185. rico says:

    agag, they pee me off so much, we have found a wonderful vet here, he’s austrian and eutanasia (spelling) is the very last resort, hes actually looked after our pets for free on a day care before just to give them a last chance… he’s quite cute as well 😉

  186. rico says:

    spooky jj, we are watching the same programme 😉

  187. JonJon says:

    i think we are rico 😉

  188. agirlagunner says:

    lol, rico, about the cute vet. I wish ours were. Instead, he just charges exorbitant fees. 🙂

    night, rico and JJ.

  189. rico says:

    nighty night agag, til tomorrow, rest well 🙂 P.S, he’s very cute 😉

  190. JonJon says:

    night agag

  191. rico says:

    jj, you heard from ave??

  192. Suhail.TV says:

    Hi,agag.. Bye agag..

  193. JonJon says:

    no rico not for a while

  194. K-TR7 says:

    Hi jj

  195. Suhail.TV says:

    Hi.. KT, How..z U?

  196. Suhail.TV says:

    Good night for all.. am off

  197. rico says:

    me neither jj….

    night stv

  198. K-TR7 says:

    Night rico.exams tomorrow…

  199. rico says:

    Night KTR7, all the best in your exam 🙂

  200. rico says:

    seems everyone has gone now….

    i may aswell join you all, off to walk the mutts..

    til tommorrow, nighty night

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