Who is Right?

Rasputin Says:

The problem over recent years has been that once an emerging player comes good, we then struggle to keep hold of them. Obviously we have stated that Cesc is not for sale and we can do that with confidence because he has been unequivocal in his wish to stay. But, if he’d said he wanted to go, we’d have to sell. He’d be far more honourable than Hleb was in the process. We have to accept that in the UK we are the 3rd largest club in terms of achievement and much lower in terms of available funds. With the European big boys we are 7th or 8th in terms of footballing attraction. Arsene is a huge asset in attracting players, but when we have lost talent that we have nurtured it has generally gone to one of those ‘bigger clubs’.

It would be an absolute disaster to develop the likes of Song and Diaby into world class players only to lose them when they begin to peak – even if we do make a handsome profit. At least we would stand a better chance of buying / retaining world class players if we could compete on the wages front.

London Says:

Can I take you up on your comment?

“The problem over recent years has been that once an emerging player comes good, we then struggle to keep hold of them.”

Can you name a player because I cannot think of a single example and I am sure you do not mean players that were sold because they were no longer wanted ala Henry, Vieira, Petit, Overmars etc?

“When we have lost talent that we have nurtured it has generally gone to one of those ‘bigger clubs’.”

Yet again struggling to think of an example, would you oblige?

“At least we would stand a better chance of buying / retaining world class players if we could compete on the wages front.”

We may regard Cesc as being loyal but he would not still be at the club if he wasn’t getting paid properly. So I ask once again who do you mean?

The problem as I see it is that these are myths perpetuated by other blogs; well, one other blog in particular, to improve their ratings where as the reality, as I see it, is that they  have very little to do with the truth.

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98 Responses to Who is Right?

  1. London says:

    Morning Roadsters

    Let’s try and get the ball rolling this way.

  2. Irishgunner says:

    FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!

  3. gazzap says:

    Flamini is the biggest example of a player we lost but he didn’t come through the ranks. But Arsenals biggest problem has been losing experienced world class players and trying to replace them with either kids or very average and usually relatively young players – and waiting for them to improve. when you play Denilson and Diaby every week in midfield, then you are not really dining at the same table as the great European teams.

    The team isn’t and never has been far from complete. I would think at any one time in the last 5 years, we have been maxiumum 3 players from what I would call a perfect squad. But these weaknesses have often been in key positions and its been enough to deny us PL titles.

    Eventually Song came through but last season that was a real problem position. He still has no proper cover.
    We wait for players like Vela, and Bendtner to peak, but all the time trophies pass us by.

    Injuries to key players have also hurt us. RVP is a big one this season – coupled with Bendtner has really taken away bite up front.

    The trouble is, this Arsenal team appears to be always almost there. Its incredibly frustrating.

  4. London says:

    I knew I should have made the title “Wenger ate my Budgie”

  5. Rasputin says:

    Morning Roadsters,

    You’ve not chosen the best morning to put me on the spot like this. I won’t be about for the next day or two, but I will quickly qualify what I meant.

    Players like Hleb, Flamini, Vieira basically left because they thought they would have more success at a ‘bigger club’ and also because they would get higher wages – this also applies to Cashley although in his case it was not bigger club but ceratinly a higher paypacket. It may be that we lost him over a mere £5k a week that he was supposedly promised.

    I don’t really care if folks want to come on here calling me names for quoting Vieira and Cashley …….

  6. London says:

    Good answer Rasp, I’m going to run with it.

  7. Big Raddy says:

    Morning,

    Flamini is the obvious example.

    As to the others, I am struggling. We had good service from PV,TH, RP, Overmars & Petit, so I don’t think it is reasonable to include them.

    Anelka ?? Though the fee was substantial

  8. Irishgunner says:

    You should have titled it “Wenger on the verge of disclosing new striker….” then just wrote Bendtner as the post. 10,000 hits guaranteed

  9. Big Raddy says:

    I agree with you Rasp about Cashley, IF it was just €5k a week. But who knows? It could have been far more, and perhaps an adjustment in his wages would have had a knock-on effect on the rest of the wage structure.

  10. Tommigooner says:

    I don’t normally jump on this blog – but thought I would on this occasion..

    I agree with your comment regarding le gaffer letting players go when their past their sell by date apart from Petit and Overmars – they wanted to go – Wenger didn’t want to sell them. At the time the Vieira/Petit axis was the best midfield force in England – Petit thought the grass was greener at a ‘bigger club’. And never really found the form/love/reputation he had at The Arsenal.

  11. Irishgunner says:

    Anelka’s brother did wrong by him, Anelka got his head turned IMO

  12. avenell says:

    Morning Roadsters..

    Gazzap ^^^ welcome to the site mate.. Sorry for the delay, but you know about the moderation thing..

    I cannot hang about as I have to get on with what I should have done yesterday..

  13. avenell says:

    Hi Tommi.. it’s my pleasure..

  14. London says:

    Flamini was offered to Birmingham, as you know all too well, so he is an example of a player who the club wanted to get rid of rather than a player that was prized away by Milan (a bigger club?) Vieira was becoming more and more injury prone and with Cesc improving at the speed a steam train we could hardly have Vieira sitting on the bench for long periods of time so he was sold by the club rather than being prized away by Juventus (a bigger club?) With Hleb, you have a point; Barcelona are a bigger club but look what happened to him, huge mistake that he has made clear in the press that he regretted.
    Cashley: a banned word, is this really a good example?

  15. jeffers says:

    In my opinion Wenger has rarely let go of a player that he didn’t think had already given his best years. (Anelka aside, but the money was obsene and worth taking). The crux of the debate is that in the last 5 years, the players he has replaced them with are 3 or 4 years younger than the norm, so they are learning on the job. I dont really have a problem with this a) because we were/are building and paying for the new stadium and b) because the world is in financial crisis and we can see that football is quickly following. In my opinion Wenger has done extremely well to prepare us for the change in the financial climate.

  16. London says:

    Gazzap

    What a pleasure, now you have found where we are come back more often even if you just copy and paste your morning comment.

    Wow, I remember those days on Lower East, who was that guy who used to comment everyday and then just disappeared Syconax or something. Happy days

  17. John Radford BigLeggy says:

    History may not make a compelling case, but I would expect that if don’t win a trophy or two soon some players who are approaching their peak (in a couple of years or so) might start to get itchy feet if they can improve their chances of medals (and possibly better money) at a so called bigger club

  18. i guess you could add edu.
    I think really prob english teams will face in the next few years is the 50% tax issue.
    Compared to spain where its 40% and 43% in italy.

  19. Rasputin says:

    I can’t hang around because I have a considerable amount of personal strife to deal with…..

    The comment was made in the context of a response to ave’s comment that it may be better to have a smaller stable of emerging talent in order to be able to compete with other clubs and pay the wages/ purchase of some established players. There has to be some middle ground where we can do both.

  20. kelsey says:

    Morning all.

    The one player I thought was just coming to his prime but left was Edu.

    Money has changed the game dramatically and therefore some players,noticeably Flamini and the whore had one good season and then think they are great playersand indespensible.The clubs sometimes give into the players demand as we did with the whore but not with Flamini as they know loyalty today could be one season,or in Diarra’s case 4 months.

    it is getting harder and harder to control these exhorbitant amount of wages and IMO they are often not justified.
    Look what Rosicky,RVP and Walcott have cost just in wages,when all of them have been injured as much as they have played.

  21. London says:

    Hello RealSocilaDad

    Edu the handsome Brazilian and his drop dead gorgous wife wanted to go and live in the warmer climes of Spain..Valencia are not a big club and are certianly not a bigger club than Arsenal, so you are going to have to put a bit more meat on your argument to make it to fly.

  22. Irishgunner says:

    Kelsey – interesting one there is John Terry. He held the “club he loves” to ransom in the summer for more money, will be interesting to see if Rooney does the same.

  23. kelsey says:

    When Abramovich came along and poured more money into a club than had ever been seen, many said Chelsea would win everything during the next ten years, or as long as the russian wasaround. Things haven’t quite panned out like that,and the age of their squad will mean further investment.
    City have taken it to another level, and it cannot be sustained.
    Our budget is a fraction of the other top 4, but with a little less stubborness and a reasonable amount of spending we are still there fighting for trophies.

  24. London says:

    Morning Kelsey

    Walcott is a good example of a player that many feel is over paid something in my opinion weakens the statement:

    “At least we would stand a better chance of buying / retaining world class players if we could compete on the wages front.”

  25. kelsey says:

    i meant and with a reasonable amount of spending now.

    Hi, Irish.

  26. kelsey says:

    morning london,
    i don’t understand your 11.41

  27. hh says:

    morning .the players are greedy ****’s these days. theres no loyalty and 95 per cent will whore themselves to the highest bidder. sad but true

  28. Irishgunner says:

    On an off note the Dementina vs Williams game is worth watching

  29. Irishgunner says:

    Hiya Kelsey – Spain avoiding the big freeze?

  30. London says:

    Kelsey

    I’m sure we both agree that City and Chelsea are both the play things of their owners when they start to get bored as Abramovic seems to be doing now they will start to drift back the obscurity that they came from, but in the mean time as you say we cannot compete with the wages they are prepared to pay so it seems to me that we are doing well by living within our means……a new striker would be nice though.

  31. sam says:

    prime examples and recent ones are flamini and hleb. all arsenal fans were excired about the prospect of flamini and cesc in the middle, hleb on the wing plus rosicky when wif etc etc for ears to come, and i for one was confident we would challenge for a few seasons with that midfield. then that year flam n hleb left, the year after ade. 3 key players from the 07-08 pl challenge not to mention gilberto diarra and toure left during that time also. no other teams seem to lose so mank key players, even the ones that aren;t winning trophies year in year out ie liverpool

  32. London says:

    Hi Kelsey

    I see what you mean, my comment is not very clear. As you mentioned Walcott I thought I would put it in context of what was written above in the headline post….no biggy.

  33. avenell says:

    HH Morning.. We try not to have the c word used on here as the ladies that are regulars on the site give me an earbashing if it’s allowed..

    And they are the boss.. 😉

  34. Irishgunner says:

    Liverpool didn’t have too many good players to lose in my very honest opinion – they lost Owen.

  35. Irishgunner says:

    What ladies? Where? 😯

  36. London says:

    I’m off to the gym as people say when they want to try and make themselves sound strong Lol

  37. the only one who has come through ranks is cashely really.
    More meat for the tax issue “the winker” has gone 2 spain kaka and now even vidic is thinking about

    Oh and london,
    Valencia arnt big club balls!
    3rd most successful team in spain behind guess who?

  38. Irishgunner says:

    Randall gone to Mk Dons

  39. hope he learns something under incy then

  40. avenell says:

    Last chance saloon…

  41. you telling me
    he need to make the step should tell the boy he’s 20 now

  42. Irishgunner says:

    Apparently he is a stubborn young man, I think their is question marks over his attitude. He was meant to go out on loan at the start of the season but after a week’s trail the club sent him back…

    Anyway catch ye all later I’m off to bed

  43. skwam says:

    the prospect of sol at 35 being signed means gallas will get at least two further years easy? hullo all, may i join your adult football conversation. im a gunner
    …promise

  44. avenell says:

    Hi skwam….of course you can join in.. your very welcome..

  45. rico says:

    Afternoon all

    Better late than never, not been sleeping, just a busy morning 😦

    Spooky, only yesterday it was mentioned that he never seems to be loaned out..

    Glad its Ince though, great player in his day and Randall could learn a lot, if he wants to..

  46. Big Raddy says:

    WG should be given 2 years because he is playing the best he has in an Arsenal shirt. He has been magnificent this season.

    I think it is unfair to brand Randall. Nothing wrong with a bit of attitude , as long as he has the talent to back it up. Though I think this is the start of his exit from THOF

  47. rico says:

    If Moyes want’s Big Phil, I wonder if we could have Jag’s in exchange 😉

  48. rico says:

    Does he remind you a bit of Bentley Raddy?

  49. gazzap says:

    London. I only just read this site today for first time. I have been busy, so I dont check new blogs, but today was bored so had a look around.
    looks good.
    I still post on East Lower but Goat doesn’t do so much these days. I remember Sycorax having a near breakdown moment where he/she questioned why we were all blogging anyway, and where would it get us, and then just disappeared. very strange.

    On Randall, I dont think he will ever make it at Arsenal so I wish him well and hope he succeeds at MK so he can get a good contract there.

  50. gazzap says:

    Yes the same sort of players as Bentley, but not quite as good. Wenger rates him though to be fair.

  51. avenell says:

    As long as the sale Randall pays for the next kid on the conveyor belt to come along it shows the youth project is self sufficient..

  52. Big Raddy says:

    Hi Gazzap. Not seen you here before

    I agree Ave. If Randall has the same success (financial!!) as Bentley, he will have had a fine career

  53. gazzap says:

    So this is where you all reside when you get tired of Le Grove? I wondered.

  54. avenell says:

    We are more in the middle of the two other famous sites Gazzap.. A few of us go over sometimes.. and a few come here..

    most of the regulars are ex grovers, they gave the site a head start tbh..

  55. avenell says:

    East Lower was also the indie site I first found, I used to google Arse.com. then EL came up underneath.. from there I found the other sites through Arsenal news.

  56. rico says:

    ave, when is the b’day of AR?

  57. avenell says:

    That’s not an easy one to answer.. The site started sort of a year and a few days ago when I sort of clicked the button..

    The first post that was written was a year ago today.. Then it’s someone elses birthday.. 😉

  58. rico says:

    Ah, I see, would you like me to do a post for tomorrow, I will steer clear from words like Dross!!

  59. gazzap says:

    Sounds good Avenell. I will be sure to click on your link every day now.

  60. London says:

    Gazzap

    Le Grove is still obviously going as strong as ever the slight difference here is besides being able, and welcome, to express concerns about any aspect of the team or management you can equally say positive things without fear of being put in moderation and then insulted.
    There is a good balance of people and it seems to work well, so as I said join in even if you just copy what ever you have written else where.
    By the way, I am not an owner, Avenell, Jonjon and Rico are but the crazy fools let me write a headline post every now and then, which if it is something that interests you, after getting to know how the site works, let us know.

    Ave

    I hadn’t seen your comments when I wrote this

  61. avenell says:

    That’s up to you rico.. If people don’t like your titles they can choose to read or not.. The debate was what do people consider to be dross..

    Dross is the waste from a product.. and the post was about who was the dross from the youth project..
    Nothing wrong with that imo..

    If JD or Senderos made it at Arsenal, Arsene wouldn’t have signed Vermaelen so. Wenger made the decision BP is dross.

  62. rico says:

    Thanks ave.. I will email you 😉

    Guys – we all have a choice where we blog. I cannot support comments which have a dig at other sites.

    It also makes me feel very uncomfortable and I would be a hypocrite to be part of it.

  63. gazzap says:

    I may do. I occasionally have articles in the Gooner fanzine, but its more a time issue. I never know when I am going to have a spare half hour, so I cant promise an article in advance.

    Do you ever have polls on this site? I think polls are great. You probably need a couple of hundred sample size to get a fair result. I almost started up my own blog, where I was going to have an article and new poll every day. But I thought, there are probably too many Arsenal blogs around – there’re bloody everywhere, (a good thing though).

  64. avenell says:

    If you have anything Gazzap, just let us know and if it’s a current issue we will make a space. Or just email it over and I would gladly put in on.. cheers.

  65. avenell says:

    We had a few polls on New Years Day for a bit of fun..

  66. London says:

    So it looks like Campbell will be officially wearing the glorious red and white again until at least the end of the season…….and who said Wenger wouldn’t sign anyone?

    It’s funny how some people cannot stand Silvestre because he used to be a manc and yet Sol, as an ex spud, just glides right on in. I have never quite understood that.

  67. peachesgooner says:

    Oh London we love Sol for crossing the divide – turning his back on the spuds to come and play for us – how could we not love him 🙂

  68. avenell says:

    One was shown the door, as he was well past his best. The other had to fight to get out the door.

    If Sol’s last club was the Spuds and they rejected him it would be a different scenario..

  69. peachesgooner says:

    Its not just about the smile and the legs 😳

  70. peachesgooner says:

    Hi ave 🙂

  71. peachesgooner says:

    Sorry, I didn’t get back to you yesterday – events kind of took over……..

  72. avenell says:

    £700 + the vat.. Inc pump and everything was the price from my local.. they never had one though.. but they are about..

  73. gazzap says:

    I dont think Silvestre is as bad as people make out. He is not perfect but he is better than Wes Brown and Senderos. Teams dont generally have amazing players playing back up. you can normally only get either a young player or an old players to sit on a bench all season.
    Chelsea and City pay their players a lot of money, so they are an exception and if you pay anyone enough they will do anything.

    But we still could end up with a situation where silvestre, Gallas and Campbell all leave this summer. We’d have Djourou and Vermaelen left.

  74. avenell says:

    I think it would help if we adjusted a bit more when Silvestre is in the team, not letting him get into positions where he is exposed for pace.

    TV or the left Midfield should cover him better, he has been okay in the air no problem.

  75. London says:

    I think we could feel secure that if Gallas, Cambell and Silvestre left then replacements would be forth coming.

    The idea of Gallas leaving is a bit scary , the other thing, doesn’t Silvestre’s contract finish at the end of the season?

  76. Patrick7 says:

    I wonder whether AW gets so involved with his coaching of talent that he forgets his established stars. This has perhaps cost him wrt Edu & maybe Flamini with their contracts slipping into the last year. There’s not as much satisfaction with playing a star as playing a protege.

    Now he has Gazidis to look after this side of things I’m sure he won’t make this mistake (hopes). As for the 30+ well, a player on x years contract is no use if their legs go so how can you fault him.

    Flamini is my only true regret as he marshalled, bit & ran his legs off for the wins while he was here. He fulfilled his contract bar perhaps the lie at the end unlike Sol who just left with a lie midway through. With him back we could guarantee bossing the midfield again.

    I hope AW persuades WG to stay but also buys another CB unless Nordveld is almost ready to come in. I think Sylvestre’s doing fine for his age & don’t hold the ex-Mancs tag to him.

  77. London says:

    Afternoon Peaches

    I like Sol and I think he is a good signing.

  78. avenell says:

    Patrick7…your a blast from the past mate.. how’s France treating you, all good I hope?

  79. I really rate Djourou he will be the one who will step in for gallas. Nordveld is look like he’ll come good to but hope he stays as it is hard for a young center half to make it in to the team. just look at upson

  80. gazzap says:

    Bartley of course too. early days for him. Bartley should get carling cup next season and then we will see what he can do.

  81. Rasputin says:

    It’s late in the day and a new post will be up tomorrow, so I will just get this off my chest ……

    I did not appreciate a comment of mine which was in the context of a larger debate being used to provide the large part of someone else’s post – particularly in the form of “you’re wrong and I’m right”. I’ve had a bad day and couldn’t be around to defend/explain my comment. It was not good blog etiquette. An email to ask if I minded would have been polite. We’d all have to scrutinize our comments much more carefully if we thought they may end up in another’s post the next day.

    Just for the record, I have never been against the signing of Sol, just predicted right from the start that he would be our only signing………

  82. hey rasp

    dont worry pal, i doubt anybody meant any real harm.. you only have the good guys/gals on here.

  83. avenell says:

    Hi Rasp…

    I am sorry you saw that the way you did.. I must confess I never saw the post in that way. I just saw two differing points of view.

    I am sure London meant it that way too. I can understand what you are saying, but as rico and I never had anything ready London thought it was just a topic of debate and not in any way undermining you.

    I apologise if you saw it the way you did and I am sure London will feel that way too.

    tbh I think it is a compliment to you and the way you write, but eh ho!.

  84. London says:

    I’m still here Rasp

    As you say it will all be gone tomorrow. It was not meant to offend you, quite the opposite.

    I understand why you would be annoyed; I can only reassure you that I will not do it again.

    On a positive note, I thought it went down rather well for a no news day.

    I can only assume your comment on Sol is a separate issue as I have never suggested you were against his signing.

    Anyway, thanks for being a sport, I know you could have been far more angry.

    Here’s an idea how about writing a headline post and clearing this all up.

  85. London says:

    I didn’t see you comment Ave before I wrote mine.

  86. Rasputin says:

    Hi ave … it would have been OK if there had been a short introduction saying something like “this comment from rasp yesterday got me thinking…” Usuall we only quote fellow bloggers in posts when we are agreeing with their comments – not setting them up to be shot down.

    The person who puts up a post is generally around to debate the topic with visitors. My ‘contribution’ formed more than half of the piece yet I could not explain/defend my standpoint. Acually as I said earlier – it was in the context of agreeing with something you said on the previous day..

  87. Rasputin says:

    Part of yesterday’s debate concerned whether it was a good thing that we were signing Sol … I just wanted to make it clear that I thought it was.

  88. London says:

    Rasp

    I think most people agreed with you rather than me

  89. Rasputin says:

    Don’t worry London … I’ll get over it. I enjoy blogging with you, I just thought that was a bit below the belt…..

  90. London says:

    I honestly expected you to be around, fighting your corner, and giving as good as you get.

  91. London says:

    I’m off for the night speak tomorrow.

  92. Rasputin says:

    Delete all this if you want ave .. I’m not bothered … just didn’t want it to fester inside me with everything else that’s going on….

  93. avenell says:

    Haha you two… You are so similar in some ways, but your views are so different and that’s why you clash..

    Anyway thanks for both your responses..

    It would be a crap blog with either of you missing..

  94. Goonersan says:

    Good evening everybody. Just back from the land of too many rules. No wonder Lehman was as mad as a box of frogs ! Tired, but just wanted to say to Rasp that from reading the posts I didn’t think there was any slight intended. Night.

  95. Rasputin says:

    Incidentally, Samuel Galindo doesn’t count as a signing since he can’t play in the UK because he doesn’t have a work permit and so cannot be included in the squad for the remainder of this season 😉

  96. avenell says:

    Lehmann’s getting madder and madder.. pissing during games, hiding strikers boots, rowing with ball boys..

    He wound me up a few times but you have to laugh..

  97. rico says:

    New post

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